Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

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Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

janne postilista
Hi,

 which IDE is best suited for developing a project to be deployed in
ServiceMix 4? Eclipse or Netbeans?

What kind of plugins, etc, are there for developing service assemblies
(binding components etc)? Do people actually write the required XML,
etc, by hand, or what is the common practise?

ServiceMix documentation
http://servicemix.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html links to a dead end,
also googling for "servicemix eclipse" brings a few dead ends like
http://swik.net/ServiceMix/Blog%3A+ServiceMix+%28SM%29/Creating+graphical+JBI+deployments+with+ServiceMix+in+Eclipse+%28created%29/b3zo

I know there's some tooling linked to Fuse ESB, but that's either not
free (fuse integration developer) or cover only part of the service
assembly (Fuse IDE for Camel http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/ )
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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

Christian Schneider
Hi Janne,

I think you could use some maven toolings for generating the xmls. The
bigger question though is: Do you really want to write JBI artifacts now
that servicemix is based on OSGi.
So the better way to go may be to write simple osgi bundles. For writing
OSGi bundles Eclipse with Sonatype m2eclipse plugin is probably all you
need.
I have written a small tutorial for developing OSGi bunldes on Karaf:
http://www.liquid-reality.de/display/liquid/2011/02/15/Karaf+Tutorial+Part+1+-+Installation+and+First+application

My company has just released a distribution of Karaf + Camel + CXF with
some nice examples for integrations.
See:
http://www.talend.com/products-application-integration/talend-integration-factory-community-edition.php

It is basically the same as servicemix but without JBI support. This is
just to show that we believe that JBI is not necessary anymore to build
an integration platform. You can deploy the same
kind of integration bundles using the normal servicemix distro.

Christian


Am 16.02.2011 12:54, schrieb janne postilista:

> Hi,
>
>   which IDE is best suited for developing a project to be deployed in
> ServiceMix 4? Eclipse or Netbeans?
>
> What kind of plugins, etc, are there for developing service assemblies
> (binding components etc)? Do people actually write the required XML,
> etc, by hand, or what is the common practise?
>
> ServiceMix documentation
> http://servicemix.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html links to a dead end,
> also googling for "servicemix eclipse" brings a few dead ends like
> http://swik.net/ServiceMix/Blog%3A+ServiceMix+%28SM%29/Creating+graphical+JBI+deployments+with+ServiceMix+in+Eclipse+%28created%29/b3zo
>
> I know there's some tooling linked to Fuse ESB, but that's either not
> free (fuse integration developer) or cover only part of the service
> assembly (Fuse IDE for Camel http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/ )
>

--
----
http://www.liquid-reality.de

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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

janne postilista
Hi,

 why would I prefer OSGi over JBI (and is it a question of choosing
either)? I thought OSGi was more or less just a way of packaging a JBI
service assembly (but maybe its not...)?

I thought JBI was a good thing (standardized packaging, common
concepts in all supporting ESBs, etc)? Why would I not want to develop
JBI artifacts? Is JBI considered bad for some reasons? If I develop
"simple osgi bundles", am I not tied into servicemix tighter than if I
develop JBI sa's (then I can move them more easily to any JBI
compliant ESB)?


On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Christian Schneider
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Janne,
>
> I think you could use some maven toolings for generating the xmls. The
> bigger question though is: Do you really want to write JBI artifacts now
> that servicemix is based on OSGi.
> So the better way to go may be to write simple osgi bundles. For writing
> OSGi bundles Eclipse with Sonatype m2eclipse plugin is probably all you
> need.
> I have written a small tutorial for developing OSGi bunldes on Karaf:
> http://www.liquid-reality.de/display/liquid/2011/02/15/Karaf+Tutorial+Part+1+-+Installation+and+First+application
>
> My company has just released a distribution of Karaf + Camel + CXF with some
> nice examples for integrations.
> See:
> http://www.talend.com/products-application-integration/talend-integration-factory-community-edition.php
>
> It is basically the same as servicemix but without JBI support. This is just
> to show that we believe that JBI is not necessary anymore to build an
> integration platform. You can deploy the same
> kind of integration bundles using the normal servicemix distro.
>
> Christian
>
>
> Am 16.02.2011 12:54, schrieb janne postilista:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>  which IDE is best suited for developing a project to be deployed in
>> ServiceMix 4? Eclipse or Netbeans?
>>
>> What kind of plugins, etc, are there for developing service assemblies
>> (binding components etc)? Do people actually write the required XML,
>> etc, by hand, or what is the common practise?
>>
>> ServiceMix documentation
>> http://servicemix.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html links to a dead end,
>> also googling for "servicemix eclipse" brings a few dead ends like
>>
>> http://swik.net/ServiceMix/Blog%3A+ServiceMix+%28SM%29/Creating+graphical+JBI+deployments+with+ServiceMix+in+Eclipse+%28created%29/b3zo
>>
>> I know there's some tooling linked to Fuse ESB, but that's either not
>> free (fuse integration developer) or cover only part of the service
>> assembly (Fuse IDE for Camel http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/ )
>>
>
> --
> ----
> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>
>
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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

Jean-Baptiste Onofré
In reply to this post by janne postilista
Hi Janne,

Currently, ServiceMix developers use mainly Eclipse or IntelliJ IDEA
(it's my case).
I don't know if there are NetBeans users.

Previously, Fuse developed a Eclipse plugin to design Camel routes. The
new Camel Rider is now pure web based. Be careful, it's focus on Camel
routes, not on JBI.
I don't know if Talend plans to release tools on the area.

Regards
JB

On 02/16/2011 12:54 PM, janne postilista wrote:

> Hi,
>
>   which IDE is best suited for developing a project to be deployed in
> ServiceMix 4? Eclipse or Netbeans?
>
> What kind of plugins, etc, are there for developing service assemblies
> (binding components etc)? Do people actually write the required XML,
> etc, by hand, or what is the common practise?
>
> ServiceMix documentation
> http://servicemix.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html links to a dead end,
> also googling for "servicemix eclipse" brings a few dead ends like
> http://swik.net/ServiceMix/Blog%3A+ServiceMix+%28SM%29/Creating+graphical+JBI+deployments+with+ServiceMix+in+Eclipse+%28created%29/b3zo
>
> I know there's some tooling linked to Fuse ESB, but that's either not
> free (fuse integration developer) or cover only part of the service
> assembly (Fuse IDE for Camel http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/ )
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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

Guillaume Nodet
Administrator
In reply to this post by janne postilista
Life isn't as easy as black or white.  JBI defines a packaging and a
container in addition to the normalized exchanges.
Both packaging and container have very strong limitations, though
ServiceMix provides some enhancements on top of the JBI spec that
fixes some of those problems.
However OSGi is a much better choice for building containers.

As for portability, the problem is that your assemblies are tied to
ServiceMix components, so if you ever want to switch to another JBI
container (there aren't that many really), you'd have to make sure the
ServiceMix components can be used in that container (which certainly
require some work), or rewrite the whole service units.

It's a choice for you to make, either stick to the standard, or favor
tools which have better productivity and support (Camel has already
more tooling than JBI I think).

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:17, janne postilista
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>  why would I prefer OSGi over JBI (and is it a question of choosing
> either)? I thought OSGi was more or less just a way of packaging a JBI
> service assembly (but maybe its not...)?
>
> I thought JBI was a good thing (standardized packaging, common
> concepts in all supporting ESBs, etc)? Why would I not want to develop
> JBI artifacts? Is JBI considered bad for some reasons? If I develop
> "simple osgi bundles", am I not tied into servicemix tighter than if I
> develop JBI sa's (then I can move them more easily to any JBI
> compliant ESB)?
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Christian Schneider
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Janne,
>>
>> I think you could use some maven toolings for generating the xmls. The
>> bigger question though is: Do you really want to write JBI artifacts now
>> that servicemix is based on OSGi.
>> So the better way to go may be to write simple osgi bundles. For writing
>> OSGi bundles Eclipse with Sonatype m2eclipse plugin is probably all you
>> need.
>> I have written a small tutorial for developing OSGi bunldes on Karaf:
>> http://www.liquid-reality.de/display/liquid/2011/02/15/Karaf+Tutorial+Part+1+-+Installation+and+First+application
>>
>> My company has just released a distribution of Karaf + Camel + CXF with some
>> nice examples for integrations.
>> See:
>> http://www.talend.com/products-application-integration/talend-integration-factory-community-edition.php
>>
>> It is basically the same as servicemix but without JBI support. This is just
>> to show that we believe that JBI is not necessary anymore to build an
>> integration platform. You can deploy the same
>> kind of integration bundles using the normal servicemix distro.
>>
>> Christian
>>
>>
>> Am 16.02.2011 12:54, schrieb janne postilista:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>  which IDE is best suited for developing a project to be deployed in
>>> ServiceMix 4? Eclipse or Netbeans?
>>>
>>> What kind of plugins, etc, are there for developing service assemblies
>>> (binding components etc)? Do people actually write the required XML,
>>> etc, by hand, or what is the common practise?
>>>
>>> ServiceMix documentation
>>> http://servicemix.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html links to a dead end,
>>> also googling for "servicemix eclipse" brings a few dead ends like
>>>
>>> http://swik.net/ServiceMix/Blog%3A+ServiceMix+%28SM%29/Creating+graphical+JBI+deployments+with+ServiceMix+in+Eclipse+%28created%29/b3zo
>>>
>>> I know there's some tooling linked to Fuse ESB, but that's either not
>>> free (fuse integration developer) or cover only part of the service
>>> assembly (Fuse IDE for Camel http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/ )
>>>
>>
>> --
>> ----
>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>
>>
>



--
Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

Guillaume Nodet
Administrator
In reply to this post by Jean-Baptiste Onofré
The new Fuse IDE is actually Eclipse based, see
http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:19, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Janne,
>
> Currently, ServiceMix developers use mainly Eclipse or IntelliJ IDEA (it's
> my case).
> I don't know if there are NetBeans users.
>
> Previously, Fuse developed a Eclipse plugin to design Camel routes. The new
> Camel Rider is now pure web based. Be careful, it's focus on Camel routes,
> not on JBI.
> I don't know if Talend plans to release tools on the area.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 02/16/2011 12:54 PM, janne postilista wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>  which IDE is best suited for developing a project to be deployed in
>> ServiceMix 4? Eclipse or Netbeans?
>>
>> What kind of plugins, etc, are there for developing service assemblies
>> (binding components etc)? Do people actually write the required XML,
>> etc, by hand, or what is the common practise?
>>
>> ServiceMix documentation
>> http://servicemix.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html links to a dead end,
>> also googling for "servicemix eclipse" brings a few dead ends like
>>
>> http://swik.net/ServiceMix/Blog%3A+ServiceMix+%28SM%29/Creating+graphical+JBI+deployments+with+ServiceMix+in+Eclipse+%28created%29/b3zo
>>
>> I know there's some tooling linked to Fuse ESB, but that's either not
>> free (fuse integration developer) or cover only part of the service
>> assembly (Fuse IDE for Camel http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/ )
>



--
Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

Jean-Baptiste Onofré
Ah, my apologies, James made a preview on a pure web based application :)

Regards
JB

On 02/16/2011 01:26 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:

> The new Fuse IDE is actually Eclipse based, see
> http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:19, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Hi Janne,
>>
>> Currently, ServiceMix developers use mainly Eclipse or IntelliJ IDEA (it's
>> my case).
>> I don't know if there are NetBeans users.
>>
>> Previously, Fuse developed a Eclipse plugin to design Camel routes. The new
>> Camel Rider is now pure web based. Be careful, it's focus on Camel routes,
>> not on JBI.
>> I don't know if Talend plans to release tools on the area.
>>
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>> On 02/16/2011 12:54 PM, janne postilista wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>   which IDE is best suited for developing a project to be deployed in
>>> ServiceMix 4? Eclipse or Netbeans?
>>>
>>> What kind of plugins, etc, are there for developing service assemblies
>>> (binding components etc)? Do people actually write the required XML,
>>> etc, by hand, or what is the common practise?
>>>
>>> ServiceMix documentation
>>> http://servicemix.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html links to a dead end,
>>> also googling for "servicemix eclipse" brings a few dead ends like
>>>
>>> http://swik.net/ServiceMix/Blog%3A+ServiceMix+%28SM%29/Creating+graphical+JBI+deployments+with+ServiceMix+in+Eclipse+%28created%29/b3zo
>>>
>>> I know there's some tooling linked to Fuse ESB, but that's either not
>>> free (fuse integration developer) or cover only part of the service
>>> assembly (Fuse IDE for Camel http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/ )
>>
>
>
>
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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

Guillaume Nodet
Administrator
In reply to this post by Christian Schneider
FWIW, disabling JBI in ServiceMix is a matter of editing a single
configuration property in
  etc/org.apache.felix.karaf.features.cfg

I think the ServiceMix community discuss those matters on the dev list
some time ago and JBI may become an optional part in the future.

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:06, Christian Schneider
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Janne,
>
> I think you could use some maven toolings for generating the xmls. The
> bigger question though is: Do you really want to write JBI artifacts now
> that servicemix is based on OSGi.
> So the better way to go may be to write simple osgi bundles. For writing
> OSGi bundles Eclipse with Sonatype m2eclipse plugin is probably all you
> need.
> I have written a small tutorial for developing OSGi bunldes on Karaf:
> http://www.liquid-reality.de/display/liquid/2011/02/15/Karaf+Tutorial+Part+1+-+Installation+and+First+application
>
> My company has just released a distribution of Karaf + Camel + CXF with some
> nice examples for integrations.
> See:
> http://www.talend.com/products-application-integration/talend-integration-factory-community-edition.php
>
> It is basically the same as servicemix but without JBI support. This is just
> to show that we believe that JBI is not necessary anymore to build an
> integration platform. You can deploy the same
> kind of integration bundles using the normal servicemix distro.
>
> Christian
>
>
> Am 16.02.2011 12:54, schrieb janne postilista:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>  which IDE is best suited for developing a project to be deployed in
>> ServiceMix 4? Eclipse or Netbeans?
>>
>> What kind of plugins, etc, are there for developing service assemblies
>> (binding components etc)? Do people actually write the required XML,
>> etc, by hand, or what is the common practise?
>>
>> ServiceMix documentation
>> http://servicemix.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html links to a dead end,
>> also googling for "servicemix eclipse" brings a few dead ends like
>>
>> http://swik.net/ServiceMix/Blog%3A+ServiceMix+%28SM%29/Creating+graphical+JBI+deployments+with+ServiceMix+in+Eclipse+%28created%29/b3zo
>>
>> I know there's some tooling linked to Fuse ESB, but that's either not
>> free (fuse integration developer) or cover only part of the service
>> assembly (Fuse IDE for Camel http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/ )
>>
>
> --
> ----
> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>
>



--
Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

Christian Schneider
Hi Guillaume,

I think it doesn´t hurt that match that the feature is there. Making JBI
optional would of course make life even eeasier for people
that do not need it.

Christian


Am 16.02.2011 13:29, schrieb Guillaume Nodet:

> FWIW, disabling JBI in ServiceMix is a matter of editing a single
> configuration property in
>    etc/org.apache.felix.karaf.features.cfg
>
> I think the ServiceMix community discuss those matters on the dev list
> some time ago and JBI may become an optional part in the future.
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:06, Christian Schneider
> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>

--
----
http://www.liquid-reality.de

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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

Robert Davies-2
In reply to this post by Jean-Baptiste Onofré
we like to keep people guessing :) The web based version is part of another but broader product line at fusesource. You'll hear about it soon.

On 16 Feb 2011, at 12:25, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:

> Ah, my apologies, James made a preview on a pure web based application :)
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 02/16/2011 01:26 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>> The new Fuse IDE is actually Eclipse based, see
>> http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:19, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>> Hi Janne,
>>>
>>> Currently, ServiceMix developers use mainly Eclipse or IntelliJ IDEA (it's
>>> my case).
>>> I don't know if there are NetBeans users.
>>>
>>> Previously, Fuse developed a Eclipse plugin to design Camel routes. The new
>>> Camel Rider is now pure web based. Be careful, it's focus on Camel routes,
>>> not on JBI.
>>> I don't know if Talend plans to release tools on the area.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>>
>>> On 02/16/2011 12:54 PM, janne postilista wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>  which IDE is best suited for developing a project to be deployed in
>>>> ServiceMix 4? Eclipse or Netbeans?
>>>>
>>>> What kind of plugins, etc, are there for developing service assemblies
>>>> (binding components etc)? Do people actually write the required XML,
>>>> etc, by hand, or what is the common practise?
>>>>
>>>> ServiceMix documentation
>>>> http://servicemix.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html links to a dead end,
>>>> also googling for "servicemix eclipse" brings a few dead ends like
>>>>
>>>> http://swik.net/ServiceMix/Blog%3A+ServiceMix+%28SM%29/Creating+graphical+JBI+deployments+with+ServiceMix+in+Eclipse+%28created%29/b3zo
>>>>
>>>> I know there's some tooling linked to Fuse ESB, but that's either not
>>>> free (fuse integration developer) or cover only part of the service
>>>> assembly (Fuse IDE for Camel http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/ )
>>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

janne postilista
In reply to this post by Guillaume Nodet
Hi,

 when you say that JBI container (and packaging) has strong
limitations, and OSGi is better for building containers, do you mean

- limitations exist for developers who develop the container
- limitations exist for developers who develop service assemblies and
just use the container (=me)?

I didn't even know I could or had to choose between developing JBI
-based or developing OSGi -based solution....what are the main
problems and limitations I would face if I choose the JBI route as
opposed to OSGi?

Any documentation / articles /  links to help with this choice?


On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Life isn't as easy as black or white.  JBI defines a packaging and a
> container in addition to the normalized exchanges.
> Both packaging and container have very strong limitations, though
> ServiceMix provides some enhancements on top of the JBI spec that
> fixes some of those problems.
> However OSGi is a much better choice for building containers.
>
> As for portability, the problem is that your assemblies are tied to
> ServiceMix components, so if you ever want to switch to another JBI
> container (there aren't that many really), you'd have to make sure the
> ServiceMix components can be used in that container (which certainly
> require some work), or rewrite the whole service units.
>
> It's a choice for you to make, either stick to the standard, or favor
> tools which have better productivity and support (Camel has already
> more tooling than JBI I think).
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:17, janne postilista
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>  why would I prefer OSGi over JBI (and is it a question of choosing
>> either)? I thought OSGi was more or less just a way of packaging a JBI
>> service assembly (but maybe its not...)?
>>
>> I thought JBI was a good thing (standardized packaging, common
>> concepts in all supporting ESBs, etc)? Why would I not want to develop
>> JBI artifacts? Is JBI considered bad for some reasons? If I develop
>> "simple osgi bundles", am I not tied into servicemix tighter than if I
>> develop JBI sa's (then I can move them more easily to any JBI
>> compliant ESB)?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Christian Schneider
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi Janne,
>>>
>>> I think you could use some maven toolings for generating the xmls. The
>>> bigger question though is: Do you really want to write JBI artifacts now
>>> that servicemix is based on OSGi.
>>> So the better way to go may be to write simple osgi bundles. For writing
>>> OSGi bundles Eclipse with Sonatype m2eclipse plugin is probably all you
>>> need.
>>> I have written a small tutorial for developing OSGi bunldes on Karaf:
>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de/display/liquid/2011/02/15/Karaf+Tutorial+Part+1+-+Installation+and+First+application
>>>
>>> My company has just released a distribution of Karaf + Camel + CXF with some
>>> nice examples for integrations.
>>> See:
>>> http://www.talend.com/products-application-integration/talend-integration-factory-community-edition.php
>>>
>>> It is basically the same as servicemix but without JBI support. This is just
>>> to show that we believe that JBI is not necessary anymore to build an
>>> integration platform. You can deploy the same
>>> kind of integration bundles using the normal servicemix distro.
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 16.02.2011 12:54, schrieb janne postilista:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>  which IDE is best suited for developing a project to be deployed in
>>>> ServiceMix 4? Eclipse or Netbeans?
>>>>
>>>> What kind of plugins, etc, are there for developing service assemblies
>>>> (binding components etc)? Do people actually write the required XML,
>>>> etc, by hand, or what is the common practise?
>>>>
>>>> ServiceMix documentation
>>>> http://servicemix.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html links to a dead end,
>>>> also googling for "servicemix eclipse" brings a few dead ends like
>>>>
>>>> http://swik.net/ServiceMix/Blog%3A+ServiceMix+%28SM%29/Creating+graphical+JBI+deployments+with+ServiceMix+in+Eclipse+%28created%29/b3zo
>>>>
>>>> I know there's some tooling linked to Fuse ESB, but that's either not
>>>> free (fuse integration developer) or cover only part of the service
>>>> assembly (Fuse IDE for Camel http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/ )
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ----
>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
> ------------------------
> Open Source SOA
> http://fusesource.com
>
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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

James Strachan
In reply to this post by Jean-Baptiste Onofré
On 16 February 2011 12:19, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Janne,
>
> Currently, ServiceMix developers use mainly Eclipse or IntelliJ IDEA (it's
> my case).
> I don't know if there are NetBeans users.
>
> Previously, Fuse developed a Eclipse plugin to design Camel routes. The new
> Camel Rider is now pure web based.

FWIW Fuse IDE is based around Eclipse...
http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/

the web based version is coming out later this year. The current beta
focusses purely on Camel EIP design & editing. More OSGi / JBI / Karaf
tooling is expected in later releases though.

Fuse IDE comes with m2eclipse which is pretty handy for working with
maven projects too; e.g. creating archetypes, working with pom.xml and
running maven goals etc.

--
James
-------
FuseSource
Email: [hidden email]
Web: http://fusesource.com
Twitter: jstrachan
Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/

Open Source Integration
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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

James Strachan
On 16 February 2011 12:45, James Strachan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 16 February 2011 12:19, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Janne,
>>
>> Currently, ServiceMix developers use mainly Eclipse or IntelliJ IDEA (it's
>> my case).
>> I don't know if there are NetBeans users.
>>
>> Previously, Fuse developed a Eclipse plugin to design Camel routes. The new
>> Camel Rider is now pure web based.
>
> FWIW Fuse IDE is based around Eclipse...
> http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/
>
> the web based version is coming out later this year. The current beta
> focusses purely on Camel EIP design & editing. More OSGi / JBI / Karaf
> tooling is expected in later releases though.
>
> Fuse IDE comes with m2eclipse which is pretty handy for working with
> maven projects too; e.g. creating archetypes, working with pom.xml and
> running maven goals etc.

Incidentally Fuse IDE works with any Camel endpoints; so you can use
it to define camel routes defining JBI and NMR endpoints or routing
to/from camel to/from JBI or NMR.

The main decision you need to make isn't so much whether or not you
want to use JBI, NMR or other endpoints (they are just URIs after all,
use whichever makes sense to your integration problem and the
components you're working with), its more about what deployment
artefact you want to build. It could be just an XML document, an OSGi
bundle or a JBI service assembly. ?Currently Maven and m2eclipse
provides tooling for creating those (along with servicemix archetypes
and maven plugin for the latter).

--
James
-------
FuseSource
Email: [hidden email]
Web: http://fusesource.com
Twitter: jstrachan
Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/

Open Source Integration
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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

Christian Schneider
In reply to this post by janne postilista
Hi Janne,

one important reason is that JBI is more or less dead. Besides
servicemix there is not much support from vendors anymore. The spec also
does not seem to evolve. There was a discussion on the dev list that
will explain more:
http://servicemix.396122.n5.nabble.com/DISCUSS-ServiceMix-future-td3212177.html

The even more important reason to use OSGi is that it is not limited to
ESBs. You can write Eclipse RCP GUIs, Server based apps using e.g. Karaf
and of course integrations using Servicemix. So it is much
easier to leverage existing libraries. It is also much more proable that
your own libraries are reused.

Another reason is that it is quite easy to write OSGi bundles in a way
so they can also be used standalone or in a web container. All examples
I did for Talend Integration factory run standalone, as a war and in
OSGi. All this works with the same source. So if parts of your
enterprise prefer to deploy in a web container you can still use the
same tools and share sources.

So while I am quite sure that the JBI packaging is dead I am not so sure
about the Normalized Message Router part of Servicemix. I did not yet
have to use it for my integrations but I can imagine it can be handy.

Best regards

Christian

Am 16.02.2011 13:17, schrieb janne postilista:

> Hi,
>
>   why would I prefer OSGi over JBI (and is it a question of choosing
> either)? I thought OSGi was more or less just a way of packaging a JBI
> service assembly (but maybe its not...)?
>
> I thought JBI was a good thing (standardized packaging, common
> concepts in all supporting ESBs, etc)? Why would I not want to develop
> JBI artifacts? Is JBI considered bad for some reasons? If I develop
> "simple osgi bundles", am I not tied into servicemix tighter than if I
> develop JBI sa's (then I can move them more easily to any JBI
> compliant ESB)?

--
----
http://www.liquid-reality.de

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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

Guillaume Nodet
Administrator
In reply to this post by janne postilista
You can read:
   http://gnodet.blogspot.com/2010/12/thoughts-about-servicemix.html
   http://www.slideshare.net/gnodet/ijtc-servicemix-4 (that one is from 2007)


On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:42, janne postilista
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>  when you say that JBI container (and packaging) has strong
> limitations, and OSGi is better for building containers, do you mean
>
> - limitations exist for developers who develop the container
> - limitations exist for developers who develop service assemblies and
> just use the container (=me)?

Limitations for SA developers, as the SA packaging is limited and
isn't really written to handle code deployment really well.

> I didn't even know I could or had to choose between developing JBI
> -based or developing OSGi -based solution....what are the main
> problems and limitations I would face if I choose the JBI route as
> opposed to OSGi?
>
> Any documentation / articles /  links to help with this choice?
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Life isn't as easy as black or white.  JBI defines a packaging and a
>> container in addition to the normalized exchanges.
>> Both packaging and container have very strong limitations, though
>> ServiceMix provides some enhancements on top of the JBI spec that
>> fixes some of those problems.
>> However OSGi is a much better choice for building containers.
>>
>> As for portability, the problem is that your assemblies are tied to
>> ServiceMix components, so if you ever want to switch to another JBI
>> container (there aren't that many really), you'd have to make sure the
>> ServiceMix components can be used in that container (which certainly
>> require some work), or rewrite the whole service units.
>>
>> It's a choice for you to make, either stick to the standard, or favor
>> tools which have better productivity and support (Camel has already
>> more tooling than JBI I think).
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:17, janne postilista
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>  why would I prefer OSGi over JBI (and is it a question of choosing
>>> either)? I thought OSGi was more or less just a way of packaging a JBI
>>> service assembly (but maybe its not...)?
>>>
>>> I thought JBI was a good thing (standardized packaging, common
>>> concepts in all supporting ESBs, etc)? Why would I not want to develop
>>> JBI artifacts? Is JBI considered bad for some reasons? If I develop
>>> "simple osgi bundles", am I not tied into servicemix tighter than if I
>>> develop JBI sa's (then I can move them more easily to any JBI
>>> compliant ESB)?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Christian Schneider
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Hi Janne,
>>>>
>>>> I think you could use some maven toolings for generating the xmls. The
>>>> bigger question though is: Do you really want to write JBI artifacts now
>>>> that servicemix is based on OSGi.
>>>> So the better way to go may be to write simple osgi bundles. For writing
>>>> OSGi bundles Eclipse with Sonatype m2eclipse plugin is probably all you
>>>> need.
>>>> I have written a small tutorial for developing OSGi bunldes on Karaf:
>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de/display/liquid/2011/02/15/Karaf+Tutorial+Part+1+-+Installation+and+First+application
>>>>
>>>> My company has just released a distribution of Karaf + Camel + CXF with some
>>>> nice examples for integrations.
>>>> See:
>>>> http://www.talend.com/products-application-integration/talend-integration-factory-community-edition.php
>>>>
>>>> It is basically the same as servicemix but without JBI support. This is just
>>>> to show that we believe that JBI is not necessary anymore to build an
>>>> integration platform. You can deploy the same
>>>> kind of integration bundles using the normal servicemix distro.
>>>>
>>>> Christian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 16.02.2011 12:54, schrieb janne postilista:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>  which IDE is best suited for developing a project to be deployed in
>>>>> ServiceMix 4? Eclipse or Netbeans?
>>>>>
>>>>> What kind of plugins, etc, are there for developing service assemblies
>>>>> (binding components etc)? Do people actually write the required XML,
>>>>> etc, by hand, or what is the common practise?
>>>>>
>>>>> ServiceMix documentation
>>>>> http://servicemix.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html links to a dead end,
>>>>> also googling for "servicemix eclipse" brings a few dead ends like
>>>>>
>>>>> http://swik.net/ServiceMix/Blog%3A+ServiceMix+%28SM%29/Creating+graphical+JBI+deployments+with+ServiceMix+in+Eclipse+%28created%29/b3zo
>>>>>
>>>>> I know there's some tooling linked to Fuse ESB, but that's either not
>>>>> free (fuse integration developer) or cover only part of the service
>>>>> assembly (Fuse IDE for Camel http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/ )
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ----
>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Guillaume Nodet
>> ------------------------
>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>> ------------------------
>> Open Source SOA
>> http://fusesource.com
>>
>



--
Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

janne postilista
A few questions still as I'm trying to get a grasp on the whole JBI /
OSGi relationship:

(1) ServiceLink has a great number of different JBI binding
components, such as
(http://servicemix.apache.org/components-list.html) servicemix-sap,
servicemix-hl7, servicemix-sdo, servicemix-file. Looking at
documentation on ServiceMix 4 at
http://www.slideshare.net/gertv/servicemix-4-integrating-osgi-with-jbi-1439897
for example, the architecture is pictured as (the slides may be old)

1. ServiceMix Kernel 1.1.0 (now Karaf?) at the bottom
2. ServiceMix NMR, Web, ActiveMQ
3. JBI Compatibility layer, CXF NMR and Camel NMR on top of ServiceMix NMR
4. ServiceMix JBI Components (2009.01) (HTTP, JMS, CXF...) on top of JBI layer

so, I get the idea that

a. If I develop pure OSGi bundles without JBI, I cannot use
servicemix-sap JBI BC - true / false?
b. If I develop pure OSGi bundles without JBI, I can only do what CXF
and Camel can - and am more limited in connectivity to more exotic
protocols such as sap, hl7...true / false?
c. in the JBI components documentation I find that "The development of
JBI components has been discontinued, in favor of Apache Camel which
provides a full range of components." - does Camel indeed offer all
the same features as the old JBI BC's?

(2) When developing pure OSGi solutions, I am going to be grouping a
number of OSGi bundles as a feature (like in JBI I would create a
Service Assembly). This "feature" is ServiceLink specific concept, is
it not? Not something that exists in all OSGi servers?

(3) Does choosing JBI or OSGi affect which clustering / failover /
High Availability -related features I can use?



On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You can read:
>   http://gnodet.blogspot.com/2010/12/thoughts-about-servicemix.html
>   http://www.slideshare.net/gnodet/ijtc-servicemix-4 (that one is from 2007)
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:42, janne postilista
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>  when you say that JBI container (and packaging) has strong
>> limitations, and OSGi is better for building containers, do you mean
>>
>> - limitations exist for developers who develop the container
>> - limitations exist for developers who develop service assemblies and
>> just use the container (=me)?
>
> Limitations for SA developers, as the SA packaging is limited and
> isn't really written to handle code deployment really well.
>
>> I didn't even know I could or had to choose between developing JBI
>> -based or developing OSGi -based solution....what are the main
>> problems and limitations I would face if I choose the JBI route as
>> opposed to OSGi?
>>
>> Any documentation / articles /  links to help with this choice?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Life isn't as easy as black or white.  JBI defines a packaging and a
>>> container in addition to the normalized exchanges.
>>> Both packaging and container have very strong limitations, though
>>> ServiceMix provides some enhancements on top of the JBI spec that
>>> fixes some of those problems.
>>> However OSGi is a much better choice for building containers.
>>>
>>> As for portability, the problem is that your assemblies are tied to
>>> ServiceMix components, so if you ever want to switch to another JBI
>>> container (there aren't that many really), you'd have to make sure the
>>> ServiceMix components can be used in that container (which certainly
>>> require some work), or rewrite the whole service units.
>>>
>>> It's a choice for you to make, either stick to the standard, or favor
>>> tools which have better productivity and support (Camel has already
>>> more tooling than JBI I think).
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:17, janne postilista
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>  why would I prefer OSGi over JBI (and is it a question of choosing
>>>> either)? I thought OSGi was more or less just a way of packaging a JBI
>>>> service assembly (but maybe its not...)?
>>>>
>>>> I thought JBI was a good thing (standardized packaging, common
>>>> concepts in all supporting ESBs, etc)? Why would I not want to develop
>>>> JBI artifacts? Is JBI considered bad for some reasons? If I develop
>>>> "simple osgi bundles", am I not tied into servicemix tighter than if I
>>>> develop JBI sa's (then I can move them more easily to any JBI
>>>> compliant ESB)?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Christian Schneider
>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Janne,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you could use some maven toolings for generating the xmls. The
>>>>> bigger question though is: Do you really want to write JBI artifacts now
>>>>> that servicemix is based on OSGi.
>>>>> So the better way to go may be to write simple osgi bundles. For writing
>>>>> OSGi bundles Eclipse with Sonatype m2eclipse plugin is probably all you
>>>>> need.
>>>>> I have written a small tutorial for developing OSGi bunldes on Karaf:
>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de/display/liquid/2011/02/15/Karaf+Tutorial+Part+1+-+Installation+and+First+application
>>>>>
>>>>> My company has just released a distribution of Karaf + Camel + CXF with some
>>>>> nice examples for integrations.
>>>>> See:
>>>>> http://www.talend.com/products-application-integration/talend-integration-factory-community-edition.php
>>>>>
>>>>> It is basically the same as servicemix but without JBI support. This is just
>>>>> to show that we believe that JBI is not necessary anymore to build an
>>>>> integration platform. You can deploy the same
>>>>> kind of integration bundles using the normal servicemix distro.
>>>>>
>>>>> Christian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 16.02.2011 12:54, schrieb janne postilista:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  which IDE is best suited for developing a project to be deployed in
>>>>>> ServiceMix 4? Eclipse or Netbeans?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What kind of plugins, etc, are there for developing service assemblies
>>>>>> (binding components etc)? Do people actually write the required XML,
>>>>>> etc, by hand, or what is the common practise?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ServiceMix documentation
>>>>>> http://servicemix.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html links to a dead end,
>>>>>> also googling for "servicemix eclipse" brings a few dead ends like
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://swik.net/ServiceMix/Blog%3A+ServiceMix+%28SM%29/Creating+graphical+JBI+deployments+with+ServiceMix+in+Eclipse+%28created%29/b3zo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know there's some tooling linked to Fuse ESB, but that's either not
>>>>>> free (fuse integration developer) or cover only part of the service
>>>>>> assembly (Fuse IDE for Camel http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/ )
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ----
>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>> ------------------------
>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>> ------------------------
>>> Open Source SOA
>>> http://fusesource.com
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
> ------------------------
> Open Source SOA
> http://fusesource.com
>
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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

Guillaume Nodet
Administrator
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 16:20, janne postilista
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> A few questions still as I'm trying to get a grasp on the whole JBI /
> OSGi relationship:
>
> (1) ServiceLink has a great number of different JBI binding
> components, such as
> (http://servicemix.apache.org/components-list.html) servicemix-sap,
> servicemix-hl7, servicemix-sdo, servicemix-file. Looking at
> documentation on ServiceMix 4 at
> http://www.slideshare.net/gertv/servicemix-4-integrating-osgi-with-jbi-1439897
> for example, the architecture is pictured as (the slides may be old)
>
> 1. ServiceMix Kernel 1.1.0 (now Karaf?) at the bottom
> 2. ServiceMix NMR, Web, ActiveMQ
> 3. JBI Compatibility layer, CXF NMR and Camel NMR on top of ServiceMix NMR
> 4. ServiceMix JBI Components (2009.01) (HTTP, JMS, CXF...) on top of JBI layer
>
> so, I get the idea that
>
> a. If I develop pure OSGi bundles without JBI, I cannot use
> servicemix-sap JBI BC - true / false?

That's wrong.  ServiceMix components can be used from a JBI packaging
or an OSGi packaging, that's unrelated.

> b. If I develop pure OSGi bundles without JBI, I can only do what CXF
> and Camel can - and am more limited in connectivity to more exotic
> protocols such as sap, hl7...true / false?
> c. in the JBI components documentation I find that "The development of
> JBI components has been discontinued, in favor of Apache Camel which
> provides a full range of components." - does Camel indeed offer all
> the same features as the old JBI BC's?

As explained above, it's not either / or.  You can use camel
components + servicemix components at the same time without any
problems.

> (2) When developing pure OSGi solutions, I am going to be grouping a
> number of OSGi bundles as a feature (like in JBI I would create a
> Service Assembly). This "feature" is ServiceLink specific concept, is
> it not? Not something that exists in all OSGi servers?
>
> (3) Does choosing JBI or OSGi affect which clustering / failover /
> High Availability -related features I can use?

No.  But choosing servicemix components or camel components would
definitely have an effect.  Though camel can be made to be reliable /
clustered through the use of JMS endpoints.  The NMR has a clustering
engine, but it is limited to JBI endpoints for now (for technical
reasons).

>
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> You can read:
>>   http://gnodet.blogspot.com/2010/12/thoughts-about-servicemix.html
>>   http://www.slideshare.net/gnodet/ijtc-servicemix-4 (that one is from 2007)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:42, janne postilista
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>  when you say that JBI container (and packaging) has strong
>>> limitations, and OSGi is better for building containers, do you mean
>>>
>>> - limitations exist for developers who develop the container
>>> - limitations exist for developers who develop service assemblies and
>>> just use the container (=me)?
>>
>> Limitations for SA developers, as the SA packaging is limited and
>> isn't really written to handle code deployment really well.
>>
>>> I didn't even know I could or had to choose between developing JBI
>>> -based or developing OSGi -based solution....what are the main
>>> problems and limitations I would face if I choose the JBI route as
>>> opposed to OSGi?
>>>
>>> Any documentation / articles /  links to help with this choice?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Life isn't as easy as black or white.  JBI defines a packaging and a
>>>> container in addition to the normalized exchanges.
>>>> Both packaging and container have very strong limitations, though
>>>> ServiceMix provides some enhancements on top of the JBI spec that
>>>> fixes some of those problems.
>>>> However OSGi is a much better choice for building containers.
>>>>
>>>> As for portability, the problem is that your assemblies are tied to
>>>> ServiceMix components, so if you ever want to switch to another JBI
>>>> container (there aren't that many really), you'd have to make sure the
>>>> ServiceMix components can be used in that container (which certainly
>>>> require some work), or rewrite the whole service units.
>>>>
>>>> It's a choice for you to make, either stick to the standard, or favor
>>>> tools which have better productivity and support (Camel has already
>>>> more tooling than JBI I think).
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:17, janne postilista
>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>  why would I prefer OSGi over JBI (and is it a question of choosing
>>>>> either)? I thought OSGi was more or less just a way of packaging a JBI
>>>>> service assembly (but maybe its not...)?
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought JBI was a good thing (standardized packaging, common
>>>>> concepts in all supporting ESBs, etc)? Why would I not want to develop
>>>>> JBI artifacts? Is JBI considered bad for some reasons? If I develop
>>>>> "simple osgi bundles", am I not tied into servicemix tighter than if I
>>>>> develop JBI sa's (then I can move them more easily to any JBI
>>>>> compliant ESB)?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Christian Schneider
>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Janne,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think you could use some maven toolings for generating the xmls. The
>>>>>> bigger question though is: Do you really want to write JBI artifacts now
>>>>>> that servicemix is based on OSGi.
>>>>>> So the better way to go may be to write simple osgi bundles. For writing
>>>>>> OSGi bundles Eclipse with Sonatype m2eclipse plugin is probably all you
>>>>>> need.
>>>>>> I have written a small tutorial for developing OSGi bunldes on Karaf:
>>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de/display/liquid/2011/02/15/Karaf+Tutorial+Part+1+-+Installation+and+First+application
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My company has just released a distribution of Karaf + Camel + CXF with some
>>>>>> nice examples for integrations.
>>>>>> See:
>>>>>> http://www.talend.com/products-application-integration/talend-integration-factory-community-edition.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is basically the same as servicemix but without JBI support. This is just
>>>>>> to show that we believe that JBI is not necessary anymore to build an
>>>>>> integration platform. You can deploy the same
>>>>>> kind of integration bundles using the normal servicemix distro.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 16.02.2011 12:54, schrieb janne postilista:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  which IDE is best suited for developing a project to be deployed in
>>>>>>> ServiceMix 4? Eclipse or Netbeans?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What kind of plugins, etc, are there for developing service assemblies
>>>>>>> (binding components etc)? Do people actually write the required XML,
>>>>>>> etc, by hand, or what is the common practise?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ServiceMix documentation
>>>>>>> http://servicemix.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html links to a dead end,
>>>>>>> also googling for "servicemix eclipse" brings a few dead ends like
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://swik.net/ServiceMix/Blog%3A+ServiceMix+%28SM%29/Creating+graphical+JBI+deployments+with+ServiceMix+in+Eclipse+%28created%29/b3zo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know there's some tooling linked to Fuse ESB, but that's either not
>>>>>>> free (fuse integration developer) or cover only part of the service
>>>>>>> assembly (Fuse IDE for Camel http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/ )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>>> ------------------------
>>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>>> ------------------------
>>>> Open Source SOA
>>>> http://fusesource.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Guillaume Nodet
>> ------------------------
>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>> ------------------------
>> Open Source SOA
>> http://fusesource.com
>>
>



--
Cheers,
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com
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Re: Best IDE for developing service assemblies for ServiceMix?

janne postilista
In reply to this post by janne postilista
Plus,

(4) If I choose to implement JBI-based solution, am I stuck with the
JBI BC components which "have been discontinued"?

What does it mean that they are discontinued, are they not developed /
bug fixed anymore? Are the current BC's stable and reliable now? Do I
have an option of either using, for example to integrate to a FTP
server

- servicemix-ftp JBI BC
- servicemix-camel JBI BC + Camel FTP integration

and which would be better?

On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 5:20 PM, janne postilista
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> A few questions still as I'm trying to get a grasp on the whole JBI /
> OSGi relationship:
>
> (1) ServiceLink has a great number of different JBI binding
> components, such as
> (http://servicemix.apache.org/components-list.html) servicemix-sap,
> servicemix-hl7, servicemix-sdo, servicemix-file. Looking at
> documentation on ServiceMix 4 at
> http://www.slideshare.net/gertv/servicemix-4-integrating-osgi-with-jbi-1439897
> for example, the architecture is pictured as (the slides may be old)
>
> 1. ServiceMix Kernel 1.1.0 (now Karaf?) at the bottom
> 2. ServiceMix NMR, Web, ActiveMQ
> 3. JBI Compatibility layer, CXF NMR and Camel NMR on top of ServiceMix NMR
> 4. ServiceMix JBI Components (2009.01) (HTTP, JMS, CXF...) on top of JBI layer
>
> so, I get the idea that
>
> a. If I develop pure OSGi bundles without JBI, I cannot use
> servicemix-sap JBI BC - true / false?
> b. If I develop pure OSGi bundles without JBI, I can only do what CXF
> and Camel can - and am more limited in connectivity to more exotic
> protocols such as sap, hl7...true / false?
> c. in the JBI components documentation I find that "The development of
> JBI components has been discontinued, in favor of Apache Camel which
> provides a full range of components." - does Camel indeed offer all
> the same features as the old JBI BC's?
>
> (2) When developing pure OSGi solutions, I am going to be grouping a
> number of OSGi bundles as a feature (like in JBI I would create a
> Service Assembly). This "feature" is ServiceLink specific concept, is
> it not? Not something that exists in all OSGi servers?
>
> (3) Does choosing JBI or OSGi affect which clustering / failover /
> High Availability -related features I can use?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> You can read:
>>   http://gnodet.blogspot.com/2010/12/thoughts-about-servicemix.html
>>   http://www.slideshare.net/gnodet/ijtc-servicemix-4 (that one is from 2007)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:42, janne postilista
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>  when you say that JBI container (and packaging) has strong
>>> limitations, and OSGi is better for building containers, do you mean
>>>
>>> - limitations exist for developers who develop the container
>>> - limitations exist for developers who develop service assemblies and
>>> just use the container (=me)?
>>
>> Limitations for SA developers, as the SA packaging is limited and
>> isn't really written to handle code deployment really well.
>>
>>> I didn't even know I could or had to choose between developing JBI
>>> -based or developing OSGi -based solution....what are the main
>>> problems and limitations I would face if I choose the JBI route as
>>> opposed to OSGi?
>>>
>>> Any documentation / articles /  links to help with this choice?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Life isn't as easy as black or white.  JBI defines a packaging and a
>>>> container in addition to the normalized exchanges.
>>>> Both packaging and container have very strong limitations, though
>>>> ServiceMix provides some enhancements on top of the JBI spec that
>>>> fixes some of those problems.
>>>> However OSGi is a much better choice for building containers.
>>>>
>>>> As for portability, the problem is that your assemblies are tied to
>>>> ServiceMix components, so if you ever want to switch to another JBI
>>>> container (there aren't that many really), you'd have to make sure the
>>>> ServiceMix components can be used in that container (which certainly
>>>> require some work), or rewrite the whole service units.
>>>>
>>>> It's a choice for you to make, either stick to the standard, or favor
>>>> tools which have better productivity and support (Camel has already
>>>> more tooling than JBI I think).
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:17, janne postilista
>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>  why would I prefer OSGi over JBI (and is it a question of choosing
>>>>> either)? I thought OSGi was more or less just a way of packaging a JBI
>>>>> service assembly (but maybe its not...)?
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought JBI was a good thing (standardized packaging, common
>>>>> concepts in all supporting ESBs, etc)? Why would I not want to develop
>>>>> JBI artifacts? Is JBI considered bad for some reasons? If I develop
>>>>> "simple osgi bundles", am I not tied into servicemix tighter than if I
>>>>> develop JBI sa's (then I can move them more easily to any JBI
>>>>> compliant ESB)?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Christian Schneider
>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Janne,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think you could use some maven toolings for generating the xmls. The
>>>>>> bigger question though is: Do you really want to write JBI artifacts now
>>>>>> that servicemix is based on OSGi.
>>>>>> So the better way to go may be to write simple osgi bundles. For writing
>>>>>> OSGi bundles Eclipse with Sonatype m2eclipse plugin is probably all you
>>>>>> need.
>>>>>> I have written a small tutorial for developing OSGi bunldes on Karaf:
>>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de/display/liquid/2011/02/15/Karaf+Tutorial+Part+1+-+Installation+and+First+application
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My company has just released a distribution of Karaf + Camel + CXF with some
>>>>>> nice examples for integrations.
>>>>>> See:
>>>>>> http://www.talend.com/products-application-integration/talend-integration-factory-community-edition.php
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is basically the same as servicemix but without JBI support. This is just
>>>>>> to show that we believe that JBI is not necessary anymore to build an
>>>>>> integration platform. You can deploy the same
>>>>>> kind of integration bundles using the normal servicemix distro.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 16.02.2011 12:54, schrieb janne postilista:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  which IDE is best suited for developing a project to be deployed in
>>>>>>> ServiceMix 4? Eclipse or Netbeans?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What kind of plugins, etc, are there for developing service assemblies
>>>>>>> (binding components etc)? Do people actually write the required XML,
>>>>>>> etc, by hand, or what is the common practise?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ServiceMix documentation
>>>>>>> http://servicemix.apache.org/eclipse-plugin.html links to a dead end,
>>>>>>> also googling for "servicemix eclipse" brings a few dead ends like
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://swik.net/ServiceMix/Blog%3A+ServiceMix+%28SM%29/Creating+graphical+JBI+deployments+with+ServiceMix+in+Eclipse+%28created%29/b3zo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know there's some tooling linked to Fuse ESB, but that's either not
>>>>>>> free (fuse integration developer) or cover only part of the service
>>>>>>> assembly (Fuse IDE for Camel http://fusesource.com/fuse/camel-beta/ )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>>> ------------------------
>>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>>> ------------------------
>>>> Open Source SOA
>>>> http://fusesource.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Guillaume Nodet
>> ------------------------
>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>> ------------------------
>> Open Source SOA
>> http://fusesource.com
>>
>