[servicemix-user] ServiceMix in WAS 5.1

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[servicemix-user] ServiceMix in WAS 5.1

Jason Dillon-5
Hi, has anyone had any experience integrating ServiceMix into  
WebSphere 5.1, WebSphere 5.1 Enterprise... or for that matter any of  
the newer version of WAS (excluding WAS CE, as the Geronimo  
integration is well understood).

Any insights would be helpful.

Thanks,

--jason
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Re: [servicemix-user] ServiceMix in WAS 5.1

Bruce Snyder
On 11/7/05, Jason Dillon <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi, has anyone had any experience integrating ServiceMix into
> WebSphere 5.1, WebSphere 5.1 Enterprise... or for that matter any of
> the newer version of WAS (excluding WAS CE, as the Geronimo
> integration is well understood).
>
> Any insights would be helpful.

Jason is alive!!! We all thought you were dead dude! It looks like
you're working for a company in the UK now?

Bruce
--
perl -e 'print unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"
);'

The Castor Project
http://www.castor.org/

Apache Geronimo
http://geronimo.apache.org/
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Re: [servicemix-user] ServiceMix in WAS 5.1

Jason Dillon-5
Hi Bruce :D  Yes, I'm still alive.  UK?  I think we might have a  
pilot going on in the UK, but I'm still in Cali, Downtown SF.

I did kinda drop off for a while though.  Had to get some stuff  
sorted.  Its nice to know that someone remembers me *blush*.  I just  
started listening to #codehaus again, perhaps I will see you in there  
sometime.

Cheers,

--jason


On Nov 7, 2005, at 4:04 PM, Bruce Snyder wrote:

> On 11/7/05, Jason Dillon <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi, has anyone had any experience integrating ServiceMix into
>> WebSphere 5.1, WebSphere 5.1 Enterprise... or for that matter any of
>> the newer version of WAS (excluding WAS CE, as the Geronimo
>> integration is well understood).
>>
>> Any insights would be helpful.
>>
>
> Jason is alive!!! We all thought you were dead dude! It looks like
> you're working for a company in the UK now?
>
> Bruce
> --
> perl -e 'print unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!
> G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"
> );'
>
> The Castor Project
> http://www.castor.org/
>
> Apache Geronimo
> http://geronimo.apache.org/
>

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Re: [servicemix-user] ServiceMix in WAS 5.1

Terance Dias
In reply to this post by Jason Dillon-5
Hi,
 
I'm also trying to deploy servicemix on WAS5.1. Any kind of help will be highly appreciated.
 
Thanks and Regards,
Terance.

Jason Dillon <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi, has anyone had any experience integrating ServiceMix into
WebSphere 5.1, WebSphere 5.1 Enterprise... or for that matter any of
the newer version of WAS (excluding WAS CE, as the Geronimo
integration is well understood).

Any insights would be helpful.

Thanks,

--jason


Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
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Re: [servicemix-user] ServiceMix in WAS 5.1

Jason Dillon-5
In reply to this post by Jason Dillon-5
I've put in a request to IBM support and will share anything I hear from them reguarding integration.

I'm not really optimistic they are going to give me the answer I am looking for though... :-(

--jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Terance Dias
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wed Nov 09 06:40:46 2005
Subject: Re: [servicemix-user] ServiceMix in WAS 5.1

Hi,
 
I'm also trying to deploy servicemix on WAS5.1. Any kind of help will be highly appreciated.
 
Thanks and Regards,
Terance.

Jason Dillon <[hidden email]> wrote:

        Hi, has anyone had any experience integrating ServiceMix into
        WebSphere 5.1, WebSphere 5.1 Enterprise... or for that matter any of
        the newer version of WAS (excluding WAS CE, as the Geronimo
        integration is well understood).
       
        Any insights would be helpful.
       
        Thanks,
       
        --jason
       

________________________________

Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. <http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTFqODRtdXQ4BF9TAzMyOTc1MDIEX3MDOTY2ODgxNjkEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWwtZm9vdGVyBHNsawNmYw--/SIG=110oav78o/**http%3a//farechase.yahoo.com/>  
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Re: [servicemix-user] ServiceMix in WAS 5.1

Terance Dias
Thanks Jason. Please let us know when you hear from them
 
Regards,
Terance.

Jason Dillon <[hidden email]> wrote:
I've put in a request to IBM support and will share anything I hear from them reguarding integration.

I'm not really optimistic they are going to give me the answer I am looking for though... :-(

--jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Terance Dias
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wed Nov 09 06:40:46 2005
Subject: Re: [servicemix-user] ServiceMix in WAS 5.1

Hi,

I'm also trying to deploy servicemix on WAS5.1. Any kind of help will be highly appreciated.

Thanks and Regards,
Terance.

Jason Dillon wrote:

Hi, has anyone had any experience integrating ServiceMix into
WebSphere 5.1, WebSphere 5.1 Enterprise... or for that matter any of
the newer version of WAS (excluding WAS CE, as the Geronimo
integration is well understood).

Any insights would be helpful.

Thanks,

--jason


________________________________

Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.


Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
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Re: [servicemix-user] ServiceMix in WAS 5.1

Bruce Snyder
In reply to this post by Jason Dillon-5
On 11/9/05, Jason Dillon <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I've put in a request to IBM support and will share anything I hear from them reguarding integration.
>
> I'm not really optimistic they are going to give me the answer I am looking for though... :-(

Have you tried the integrating by using the JCA reasource adapter?:

http://servicemix.org/JCA

Just another thought.

Bruce
--
perl -e 'print unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"
);'

The Castor Project
http://www.castor.org/

Apache Geronimo
http://geronimo.apache.org/
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RE: [servicemix-user] ServiceMix in WAS 5.1

Jason Dillon-5
In reply to this post by Jason Dillon-5
I'm not sure how that would even work really.  Looks like the JCA
support in SM is meant to be used to deploy a RA into SM, not SM into a
JCA container.  I could be wrong, but that is how the docs look to me.

Anyways, WAS 5.x is only JCA 1.0 so I'd imagine that if it was possible
to integrate via JCA it would have to be w/the WAS 6.x series wince it's
the first WAS to support JCA 1.5.

It may be possible to get SM to run inside of the same JVM as WAS, but
it does not look like there is an IBM supported way to do that.  A
coworker explained to me how at a previous company they had to use a
static block on an EJB class to setup and run a custom app server that
required threading and direct socket access.

It's a hack, and certainly nothing that IBM will support.  My previous
company had to do something similar to get a custom app-server built on
JBoss to run inside of WAS.  It's crazy how much control marketing
folios have over engineering when it comes to trying to make everything
fit into the J2EE space, when it clearly has no place there.

--jason


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Snyder [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 7:22 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [servicemix-user] ServiceMix in WAS 5.1
>
> On 11/9/05, Jason Dillon <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I've put in a request to IBM support and will share anything I hear
from

> them reguarding integration.
> >
> > I'm not really optimistic they are going to give me the answer I am
> looking for though... :-(
>
> Have you tried the integrating by using the JCA reasource adapter?:
>
> http://servicemix.org/JCA
>
> Just another thought.
>
> Bruce
> --
> perl -e 'print unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-
> N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"
> );'
>
> The Castor Project
> http://www.castor.org/
>
> Apache Geronimo
> http://geronimo.apache.org/
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RE: [servicemix-user] ServiceMix in WAS 5.1

Jason Dillon-5
In reply to this post by Jason Dillon-5
Well, I got some responses back from IBM... and no big surprises to me.
What follows is basically the support exchange verbatim...

Here is what I asked them:

<snip>
I'm trying to figure out how to get ServiceMix
(http://servicemix.codehaus.org) to run inside of WAS.  Any version of
WAS really... 5.1, 5.1 Enterprise, 6.0, etc.  Preferring WAS 5.1, as we
currently deploy this version for most components.  But honestly I just
want to know if *any* of them can do it.

So far I have been unable to find any documentation on how to plug in a
non-j2ee component into WAS.  This includes other components too, like
Quartz or ActiveMQ.

I previously sent a request asking how to deploy a custom
socket-based/threading component into WAS and I was told to look at WBI,
but so far all I can see is some additional APIs (like Async and Startup
beans), which I could use to implement similar functionality... ie.
rearch the existing component using these IBM/WAS specific APIs.  This
is not really an option, especially when considering taking an existing
thirdparty component (like ServiceMix or Quartz).

So...

I'm looking for a definitive answer about what IBM/WAS platform (if any)
can be used deploy an existing thirdparty non-j2ee component (which can
have free access to threads, sockets, etc)?  And if there is such a
platform, what the specific integration points are and where there is
concise documentation to explain how this is possible.

I'm not looking for a way to "do the same thing" using IBM/WAS
proprietary technology (like async beans to thread, etc.).
</snip>

And the response from IBM support:

<snip>
A couple of things....

Threading:
WebSphere at any release does not support out of context threading at
any release meaning you can't spawn native threads from anywhere within
the appserver. In these cases, you have to use the WorkManager API.  For
was 5, this means the EE or WBISF edition, for was6 you can use any
version - Base or ND or XD as the programming extensions(WorkManager -
Async beans),  are available in every version.

Active MQ:
I believe this is a JMS provider.  WAS 5 and 6 each come with an
embedded JMS server but have the ability to define a 3rd party  generic
JMS provider.  The issue is whether the the 3rd party provider supports
the appropriate level of the JMS spec required by the J2EE spec version
implemented in a particular version of WebSphere.  For 5.x, I believe
this is 1.0 and for 6.x, it is 1.1.  

ServiceMix:
I'm not entirely familiar with this product beyond it is some type of
ESB product.   ESB technology is implemented in was 6 with the
SIB(Service Integration Bus) and WebServices GateWay.  At 5.x, it is
less formally defined but something can be implemented with the embbeded
JMS server and the WebServices GateWay.  I have not come across anyone
trying to integrate WebSphere with ServiceMix..

That said, I think you may be interested in the WAS Community Edition
(CE).  WAS/CE is based on the Geronimo appserver from Apache and is
built with ActiveMQ and ServiceMix.  This product is scheduled to go
electronic GA on monday - 11/14.  You can find more information here:  
http://www-306.ibm.com/software/info1/websphere/index.jsp?tab=landings/w
as-ce

and Geronimo here:  http://geronimo.apache.org/   - the underlying
component list is here: http://geronimo.apache.org/dependencies.html.
</snip>

I had probed them and some GlueCode folks about WAS/CE a little more,
and was pleased to see that IBM support was well... *almost*
recommending it to me (though some official sales presentations from IBM
sales doesn't really put WAS/CE in a positive light compared to its
bastard bigger brothers).

Anyways a further enquiry about WAS/CE and a follow up to my first
question about Quartz:

<snip>
Hey Jason,
WAS/CE is the latest release of  the GlueCode offering and Monday is the

day as far as I know.   I did some searches on google and there seem to
be some folks who have used quartz inside of websphere but we don't have
anything official.  One article did mention a quartz threadpool and that
would have the same thread restrictions as anything else - it would have

to use the WorkManager.   OpenSymphony has a developer forum and that
may be the best place to find someone with direct experience using
quartz inside of websphere.

 I did find this article on IBM's DeveloperWorks that specifcally
mentions integration Quartz with Geronimo and implies WAS/CE.
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-ag-thirdpart
y/
</snip>

 * * *

Anyways, that's all I've gotten out of them so far.  Looks like there is
no supported way to drop SM into WAS (and version, short of the new AG
based WAS/CE which may have been renamed to GlueCode SE).

It appears that if SM was to be pluggable into WAS that SM would have to
use the Aync Beans API aka WorkManager to handle threading.  Not sure
how that relates to socket connections though.

Hope this helps shed some light on this for some people.  I will post
anything else I hear.

Cheers,

--jason
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Re: [servicemix-user] ServiceMix in WAS 5.1

Guillaume Nodet-3
Just for my information.   What would happen if you try to deploy SM in
a webapp for example, inside
WAS.  Does WAS completely remove access to threads and sockets with java
security policies ?

Guillaume

Jason Dillon wrote:

>Well, I got some responses back from IBM... and no big surprises to me.
>What follows is basically the support exchange verbatim...
>
>Here is what I asked them:
>
><snip>
>I'm trying to figure out how to get ServiceMix
>(http://servicemix.codehaus.org) to run inside of WAS.  Any version of
>WAS really... 5.1, 5.1 Enterprise, 6.0, etc.  Preferring WAS 5.1, as we
>currently deploy this version for most components.  But honestly I just
>want to know if *any* of them can do it.
>
>So far I have been unable to find any documentation on how to plug in a
>non-j2ee component into WAS.  This includes other components too, like
>Quartz or ActiveMQ.
>
>I previously sent a request asking how to deploy a custom
>socket-based/threading component into WAS and I was told to look at WBI,
>but so far all I can see is some additional APIs (like Async and Startup
>beans), which I could use to implement similar functionality... ie.
>rearch the existing component using these IBM/WAS specific APIs.  This
>is not really an option, especially when considering taking an existing
>thirdparty component (like ServiceMix or Quartz).
>
>So...
>
>I'm looking for a definitive answer about what IBM/WAS platform (if any)
>can be used deploy an existing thirdparty non-j2ee component (which can
>have free access to threads, sockets, etc)?  And if there is such a
>platform, what the specific integration points are and where there is
>concise documentation to explain how this is possible.
>
>I'm not looking for a way to "do the same thing" using IBM/WAS
>proprietary technology (like async beans to thread, etc.).
></snip>
>
>And the response from IBM support:
>
><snip>
>A couple of things....
>
>Threading:
>WebSphere at any release does not support out of context threading at
>any release meaning you can't spawn native threads from anywhere within
>the appserver. In these cases, you have to use the WorkManager API.  For
>was 5, this means the EE or WBISF edition, for was6 you can use any
>version - Base or ND or XD as the programming extensions(WorkManager -
>Async beans),  are available in every version.
>
>Active MQ:
>I believe this is a JMS provider.  WAS 5 and 6 each come with an
>embedded JMS server but have the ability to define a 3rd party  generic
>JMS provider.  The issue is whether the the 3rd party provider supports
>the appropriate level of the JMS spec required by the J2EE spec version
>implemented in a particular version of WebSphere.  For 5.x, I believe
>this is 1.0 and for 6.x, it is 1.1.  
>
>ServiceMix:
>I'm not entirely familiar with this product beyond it is some type of
>ESB product.   ESB technology is implemented in was 6 with the
>SIB(Service Integration Bus) and WebServices GateWay.  At 5.x, it is
>less formally defined but something can be implemented with the embbeded
>JMS server and the WebServices GateWay.  I have not come across anyone
>trying to integrate WebSphere with ServiceMix..
>
>That said, I think you may be interested in the WAS Community Edition
>(CE).  WAS/CE is based on the Geronimo appserver from Apache and is
>built with ActiveMQ and ServiceMix.  This product is scheduled to go
>electronic GA on monday - 11/14.  You can find more information here:  
>http://www-306.ibm.com/software/info1/websphere/index.jsp?tab=landings/w
>as-ce
>
>and Geronimo here:  http://geronimo.apache.org/   - the underlying
>component list is here: http://geronimo.apache.org/dependencies.html.
></snip>
>
>I had probed them and some GlueCode folks about WAS/CE a little more,
>and was pleased to see that IBM support was well... *almost*
>recommending it to me (though some official sales presentations from IBM
>sales doesn't really put WAS/CE in a positive light compared to its
>bastard bigger brothers).
>
>Anyways a further enquiry about WAS/CE and a follow up to my first
>question about Quartz:
>
><snip>
>Hey Jason,
>WAS/CE is the latest release of  the GlueCode offering and Monday is the
>
>day as far as I know.   I did some searches on google and there seem to
>be some folks who have used quartz inside of websphere but we don't have
>anything official.  One article did mention a quartz threadpool and that
>would have the same thread restrictions as anything else - it would have
>
>to use the WorkManager.   OpenSymphony has a developer forum and that
>may be the best place to find someone with direct experience using
>quartz inside of websphere.
>
> I did find this article on IBM's DeveloperWorks that specifcally
>mentions integration Quartz with Geronimo and implies WAS/CE.
>http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-ag-thirdpart
>y/
></snip>
>
> * * *
>
>Anyways, that's all I've gotten out of them so far.  Looks like there is
>no supported way to drop SM into WAS (and version, short of the new AG
>based WAS/CE which may have been renamed to GlueCode SE).
>
>It appears that if SM was to be pluggable into WAS that SM would have to
>use the Aync Beans API aka WorkManager to handle threading.  Not sure
>how that relates to socket connections though.
>
>Hope this helps shed some light on this for some people.  I will post
>anything else I hear.
>
>Cheers,
>
>--jason
>  
>

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RE: [servicemix-user] ServiceMix in WAS 5.1

Jason Dillon-5
In reply to this post by Jason Dillon-5
I had been avoiding going through this exercise, as I'm still finding it
a lot of work to run the cli version out of the box.

Anyways, I just tried, built from trunk & created the war from
tooling/servicemix-web.  I deployed into WAS 5.1.1.2, and used all of
the default options for the war.

And... well it looks like there are some cl problems... er something is
unhappy.  WAS however was happy to report that the application was
started.  Hitting the URL afterwards produces a meaningless 404 error.
Ugh, I hate WAS.

Here is the log output if you are interested:

    http://rafb.net/paste/results/VNBD6y14.html

Output from start app action was too long to paste via email.

--jason